Residents living along a dead-end road — and hoping to keep it that way — have convinced village officials to discuss concerns about plans to connect it to a main street. The Pleasant Prairie Village Board will have a special meeting at 6:30 p.m. Thursday at the Village Hall, 9915 39th Ave., with those residents to review details on why the roadway, 55th Avenue, is to intersect with an extension of 80th Street. The meeting is open to the public.
Village officials (who?) also argued that snow-plowing and garbage vehicles would not have to turn around in the 55th Avenue dead-end if there were an intersection with 80th Street. (Not a probelm if they put in one of their famous 'temporary' cul-de-sacs!).
A dozen residents of the neighborhood told the board Monday that opening 55th Avenue would ruin the neighborhood feel, create traffic that likely will exceed the speed limit, and place children — who don’t have sidewalks to ride and play on — in danger. (Exact same arguments we used to prevent bike trail crossing). I'm sure the Boards reaction was "HoHum, here we go again".
“The hazards exceed the benefits” (Same for bike trail users).
“It would add 35 seconds” saying that it was not a significant delay. (Again, same used).
The board’s reaction to the residents’ concerns might make a difference come election time (watch it!), others suggested a grassy area at the end of 55th Avenue where it would connect with 80th Street be restricted to emergency vehicle use. (Again, sound familiar to bike trail crossing?)
Village President John Steinbrink said possible options to address the concerns would be outlined at the Thursday meeting. He noted that residents had a lot of wrong information. (Who's fault is that!) In the end, the Village will use another area against them and/or say that it was always designed that way, and sorry, we can't help you. They'll piss off everyone else if they do anything different. So sad that they feel that their progress is more important than keeping neighborhoods the way they were. Like I said before, if it was their neighborhoods, then they'd actually do something about it (NIMBY). Propose a main road for new downtown through area across 39th by Village Hall and you-know-who would have a fit!
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17 comments:
I could care less about this issue, other than the fact I know Doug and Joan Palmer better than some of my own family, and hope things go there way (anti-55th ave through).
That being said, here are some things I'd like to comment on.
1) John said "word of mouth" is a poor way to communicate with the Village, and leads to bad information. Meeting attendance, minutes, and direct communication with Village officials is much better and leads to correct information.
2) I think the officials in this case would have to be John Steinbrink Jr. (snow removal and garbage trucks), Paul Guilbert (Fire Chief), and Wagoner (Police Chief) consulting with the Village Board and staff. Those were the chief concerns presented to the residents.
3) You say ho-hum and throw stones. Easy to do. I don't even agree with the Village Board on this issue. I am for the 80th street extension, but not the 55th ave outlet. I'd like to have you run for office, make tough decisions, and deal with the issues in the forefront...it's not that simple. Using snippets to critique is plenty simple.
The Board is revisiting the issues with the neighbors with regard to the 55th avenue connection. Instead of always criticizing the Village Board, ask some questions from their point of view:
1) Where were the residents in 1980 when the 80th street plan began?
2) Who protested when the Lawlers donated the land for this project?
3) When did the residents realize this project wasn't something they were in favor of, and when did they first act?
There are ALWAYS two sides to the decision making process. It can't always be easy.
JR, I applaud your involvement and respect your knowledge. I gain great insight from your perspectives.
Yes, leadership is difficult, but leadership in a vaccuum seems nearly impossible and historically it's grounds for revolution. I'm NOT saying that's what we have in PP, I'm just saying that anything that seems to resemble a vaccuum should be avoided and darn near any kind of communication is good communication.
1) Meeting attendence is difficult. It seems to me that the best way to achieve meeting attendance is through word of mouth, so both seem crucial to me.
2) The ease of snow removal, garbage, police and fire actually makes the resident's point that traffic will change the neighborhood. But it seems to be preaching to the choir. The ones that get it, already get it.
3) Yes, being an elected rep is very difficult. And a stone or two likely makes them better representatives, because if everyone agrees on everything, then most aren't thinking at all. And that can't be good for anyone.
i) I was in my Dad's basement listening to KISS - Destroyer in 1980. Community planning and development seemed like Mars exploration to me back then. However today, both seem to make more sense.
ii) ...no idea.
iii)Reseidents probably realized when they moved in a few years ago. To expect the residents now to be the same ones from 1980, seems slightly unreasonable.
People buy their houses for the here and now. They bought into their neighborhoods because they were peaceful and quiet. Nobody expects their governemnt to come in a destroy that. Does Village value their homes based on future developemnt? In our case, there were no homes in this area so no one was around to protest (although one small developer did protest bike trail crossing back then in 1990 when first proposed). I did start asking questions when I moved in; that's one reason I became POA President. Nobody thought the land would ever be developed and what we were being told by Village and what was reality were not the same. Sheridan Woods current plan didn't even exist until 2001. Village was incorporated in 1989 so what would people do before that? Keep it a bedroom community. That's why people move here. Just remember, there is a CON for every PRO.
FYI, Sheridan Woods had plans as far back as the 1980s...prior to the Village's incorporation. Tom Shircel/Jean Werbie can show you the adaptations those plans have undergone over the years, but they were there.
People buying a home ordinarily deal with at least one realtor, and it's that realtor's due diligence to find out about current/future development in a particular area (as well as the seller to disclose the same). Do you think any of those residents went to their realtor/seller of their current residence to complain??? I highly doubt it, but they go after the Village for their long term plans. The Village actually bought homes to ensure 80th street would go as planned. It stinks, but there have obviously been prior opportunities. I know it's a proper forum, but it seems to me they waited until the 11th hour. In spite of this, the Village is willing to meet with them to see if they can come to an agreement with the neighbors. Good for both sides!!!
I don't even agree with the 55th Ave through way, but at least I understand how this came about over years (actually DECADES) of planning. I even contacted Shirley Warnock with suggestions for alternatives to give the Village. Whether or not they are feasible is beyond me (my civil engineering background is a negative value), but it's worth a try.
It's come to the point where this forum is great, and I do appreciate the time you take to put it together. This is especially true now that Alex has to devote time for his campaigning. However, your negativity towards anything to do with the Village is overwhelming.
In my opinion, it's similar to your contention about The Orchard's "unprofessional" approach to Prairie Trails West about water easements. I still haven't heard from you as to who from The Orchard contacted anyone from PTW. I have asked on numerous occasions, to no avail. I don't know the particulars on either side, nor what was actually said on either side. From my perspective, it is disingenuous. I have been our "spokesmen" with the Village throughout, yet NEVER contacted anyone from PTW. BTW, I'd STILL like to know who was involved on BOTH sides of the table during said discussion(s).
Hey, somebody has to fill in for RAG and Alex.
You really don't know who called me? Then I will have no further comment. Good luck with The Orchard.
Here we go again, ad naseum, "it was in Pollo's plans, how dare you go against them."
I wonder how many people will get threatened and have their jobs and livelihoods attacked again. When will people learn, it's the Steinbreink/Poolocough Reich and you can't win. They have time for now and will use it to come back again and again until they get what they want.
You can win against their strip mall/auto centric mentality.
I meant to say you CAN'T win against them...
I wouldn't be surprised to see them require a gated emergency and Village vehicle use only crossing that the residents would have to pay to install. How about a left-turn only option? Would prevent the cut throughs.
Actually, this plan was in place prior to Pollocoff and Steinbrink getting involved with Pleasant Prairie.
Next?
So was the plan to connect 82nd Street to Green Bay Road. Next?
The original plan wasn't from Pollocoff, it was prior to his being in PP. The property was donated to the Village by the Lawlers around 1980. Prior to his being hired.
I believe the Village added that 82nd street debacle as an alternative recently. I don't know whose idea that was, but it definitely came from the Village. As opposed to the Kenosha News' report it came from Hujik/Crawford.
Mike, I love how you're in favor of anonymity when it suits you. What happened to anonymice?? Or are there a few you keep hidden in your pocket?
It's similar to your "no further comment" on The Orchard....you gave zero substance. I really want to know who contacted you and when. Was it Fouad? He may be a lot of things, but never unprofessional....and I doubt it was one of the other owners. You never even said it was you until yesterday, you shrouded it in a generic Prairie Trails West. I know you're against our development, just say so instead of these silly accusations.
On that note, the Kim's would actually be better off if we were to build there...their driveway would last longer than 6 months. It hasn't done that since they moved there!
The anonymous comments are not mine. I don't need to hide. Why would I even have this blog with my name on it if I was trying to hide? Not my writing style but I think I know who it is.
I was President, and still am, of PTWPOA so who else would be called? I said it could have been handled better. At the time, I didn't want anything to jeoperdize preventing bike trail crossing. When I talked with residents about what The Orchard wanted to do, they all said no way. I think everyone was sick of it and the whole bike trail crossing. I don't really care if you build your houses there or not. I've known the Kim's a lot longer than I've known you. Sometimes you support people because they are your friends who supported you.
I was talking about 82nd Street connecting as Village mentioned Kenosha was supposed to connect street, but for some reason, they did not. I don't know if State prevented or what. Who gains the most benefit from road going through? Not Pleasant Prairie residents.
You'd have to talk to Kim's yourself to find out if they think they would be better off with your development.
I know you aren't anonymous. Normally, you criticize those who use that moniker. It must be only when it doesn't suit your agenda.
I am very happy to have been given the opportunity to address the HOA and let them know our position on things. {sarcasm off} Even that offer wasn't extended. Who do you think actually handled the situation poorly??? Us, as the big bad developer?? The easements would have gone unnoticed (unless someone resides in the retention pond)...and the money for those easements could have helped your HOA.
You don't care??? Here is your email to me on March 8th.
John:
I was against any subdivision that would give, or gave, the Village ammunition and reasons for crossing the bike trail. It was really that simple for us residents who I represented as President (I am no longer after serving two terms); and I was also supporting coworkers who live next to your property who also supported our position on the bike trail crossing. Nothing personal. As far as I was concerned, after my experiences with Pickus, you were just another Pickus-like developer. I didn't feel the way I was contacted about the water through our subdivision was handled very professionally either and it just reinforced our feelings about developers. If Pickus was grade A, we may have felt differently but you would have been required to fulfill some items that the Village suggested to us that could have been costly (and that's all I will say).
It's just a David versus Goliath type thing for us residents. Just think of your Bear experience. And the fact that the Village kept flip-flopping just pissed us off even more. Unfortunately for you, you picked an area that was controversial and antagonistic to begin with and working with someone that even Pollocoff called the worst.
Mike
I do apologize for not realizing you had said "you" initially, but when you never mentioned it further when I tried to set up meetings, I assumed (incorrectly) it was someone else.
It's pretty obvious your assumptions had/have you vehemently against us. You flip-flopped on the landscaping surrounding our retention ponds (first you asked us to have berms, then said they attracted unnecessary attention). You went a step further to discuss the "drowning" in the PTW retention pond, yet failed to mention alcohol and narcotics as factors in the crash. If the Village did anything similar, you'd be up in arms over their lack of honesty (or omission of some facts). We shall see how care free you are at our next public hearing.
The Kim's have had their driveway wash out several times since they moved there. They were told the grading of our property would help that. What they actually think isn't what i am worried about, we are honestly willing to do things properly, and they don't care. I don't think they understand the grading/sewers on the Szele's property (The Orchard) would benefit most homeowners dealing with flooding on south 28th Ave.
As I said previously, I wanted the berm to prevent cars from going in pond, but then Village said it would be 30 feet high and I thought that would lead to kids sledding in winter onto possible thin ice. The plan changed or I misunderstood.
I said I don't care any more. Village and you will do as you please. Concerns were raised and the process is over once Village gives green light. Just look at today's article. I guess I'm not the only one who was unhappy with the Village's response.
It was a sarcastic..."the berm isn't gonna be 30ft. high." I think it's a graded 4-6 ft or so...but we took it out.
"Village and you will do what you please."
I only wish, I'd be in my new house by now if that were the case.
Looks like you are on your way; what's this for as there is no PDF file?
7/7/2008 | The Orchard LD Variance July 2008
The cul de sac variance was tabled last time. I would assume the pdf is still on file from when it was tabled.
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